"You don't hit your wife over the head with a club, do you?"
My two e-mail accounts ran over with feedback during the "Dead Fish Debate" recently.
Even if we human beings are of the same breed and live on such a small planet, we certainly get our own ideas which we like to stick to....
For those of you who missed the thread: Here are a handfull of answers that came in through newsgroup rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:
Jan Gunnar,
I think that if norwegians even pretended to try C&R, the salmon stock
would be a lot better off. We all know (in Norway) that the salmon stock is
at a historic low. Everyone thought that the banning of gillnets was going
to cause a boom in the salmon population, but that never happened. Even the
most famous rivers like the laerdal have been experiencing the worst
conditions ever. A friend of mine fished there last summer, and between 5
fishermen they caught 3 fish, 2 grilse and one of 7 kgs. Pathetyic if you
ask me, because water conditions and weather were perfect. Salmon fishing
in norway is at an all-time low, and if we want to see the stock get better
and bigger, it is obvious that it is not enough to ban commercial fishing,
but catch and release rules must be implemented in the rivers where the
salmon spawn. Time to get real, jan gunnar, C&R.
Just because our forefathers had a custom of killing all, doesn't mean we have to do so.
You don't hit your wife over the head with a club, do you?
Kristen Mustad PS I don't mind seeing pictures of dead fish on the web.
Again, the question begs an answer. 'Is it wrong to show sportsman
pictures such as yours on the web?'
The answer is no, it isn't Wrong. But why should you? Why did you?
What is your motive? A fly fisherman doesn't have an ego to fill. He
counts as his blessings the fish released for another day. Catch and
Release or Catch and Kill is a private affair. Why didn't you keep the
ugly picture private?
I refuse to try and explain the problem to you. It seems you have no
idea what you're doing. Absolutely none. The picture digusts me. You
didn't need to post it and you know it.
Mr. G.
Leave the Norwegian alone you crybaby Americans. I lived in the Soviet
Union a good while and got so sick of hearing the song and dance from
privileged tourists about the evils of fur (we wore it to keep warm, thank
you very much) and about the common practise of abortion (a fact of life
in the former USSR and the only method of birth control). Seems C&R falls
into the same category: things people with not enough to do go apeshit
about. If one wants to kill a few fish, great. Fish are, as last I heard,
lower on the food chain than homo sapiens. C&R is great...but let's not
get carried away. Get a life.
sdiel36214@aol.com
When people start bragging that they cought 30 fish that day; one
good way to respond is ask which one was the prettiest or which one
fought the hardest. We are not in this sport to rack up a body count,
if that was the case, we would be using garden hackel.
I personally, would rather show a picture of a beautiful fish that
fought hard and lived to fight another day. No, I am not one of thoes
people that feels that if you kill a fish, you are lower than pond
scum. I just don't think that the actuall death of the fish is
something to brag about.
dracula4@ix.netcom.com
You catch a fish...you kill it...you photograph it and
share it with the world. Big deal. No ego gratification
in sharing a moment, perhaps...
Tell ya what, my friends...I sense a great deal of ego
on the "C&R Gallery" shots of FF magazines.
Moreso then Jan Gunnars exceptional photograph of just fish
in a boat.
Like nude figures and still lifes, a beautiful image can be created
of dead fish and an artful photographer...nothing more, nothing less.
A photo of a Mississippi Catfish man and his 40 pound flathead does
not feel like ego gratification to me as much as..."Damned, nice fish !"
You interpret them your way, I'll interpret them mine...
TimW
Put this picture in it's context please. There are at least 9 dead salmon
at the bottom of the boat.
How much meat can a sport fisher harvest and still be a sport and not someone
just trying to reduce his early bill at the fish market.
Oh yeah for some more info; most Scandanavian countries allow hunters and
sport fishermen TO SELL their kill. Is that sport?
Ralph H
Actually, his page says the fish were taken by a party over several days
and all on flies. With that in mind, what's the big deal?
The determining factor as to sportfishing is not in wether the fish
were kept or not, but in how the were pursued and caught. There is
nothing unsporting about keeping your catch. High seas trwlers and
commercial harvesting boats may be a threat to these fish, not this.
Try not to be fanatical in your beliefs, people. You may cast an ugly
shadow on fisherman, flyfisherman in particular.Some of it is still a
matter of choice. If the fish management policies of the area can allow
this, there is nothing unethical about it. Personal the picture makes me
a tad jealous.
Oh, by the way, I like to eat fish. So, while I'm out spilling
hundreds around on the fees, management, and equipment suppliers of the
"sport" I get hungry, I'm not going to gently release my catch into the
water, hurry to the store and pay $XXX for stale fish.
Who would guess? There are other, lesser, elements of enjoyment in
fishing and the use of the resource than just the enticement of the fish
to a pointless hook. If you choose to catch and release, bravo!, more
power to you. You have made a personal choice as to what parts of
sportfishing to participate to satisfy your needs, and which not to.
I doesn't accomplish anything to try to humiliate another to your way of
thinking.
We should, in this day of overwhelming threats to "our"
resources,attempt to practice a little triage. Don't waste limited
efforts and energies on situations which cannot be helped or those which
dont need to be helped.
Nice catch, Jan. the picture makes my mouth water.
mykiss@mail.capital.net
I fully support you on this one Jan. I was in awe of the photo. Mostly
the wooden ribs of a wooden boat with the fish and that angle, I was in
love !!!. Can I have a boat ride in this gorgeous craft ? I love wooden
boats, and have built one myself. Do not carry guilt down to the fjord
with you because you still fish as God intended you to. This is at the
very heart of my ramblings against C&R. That we have forgotten what
'fishing' is about and we have succombed to the econmics of the flyfishing
industry here in the states. I view the selective harvest of fish as
part of my God given rights as a human being on this earth and will fight
to the death to preserve this right. This view has earned me the title
'asshole' over here in the US more then once.
C&R dogma kills me as an American fisherman too. I wage a serious war against
this abuse of fishermen that still subsistence fish. You have a good ally in
me in this war.
I think that you should invite George (and me...wink wink...) over when the fish are in and
show him
a bit of your culture and discuss it like friends. I think that someone should
post more opinions on C&R from around the world, especially Europe, Especially
Germany, and Asia. Pure C&R is very, very laughable there. It shows a disrespect for
the fish, IMO. Only in the US has this been pushed as a solution. I would
expect nothing else from the only county in the world to allow exportation of
raw old growth timber to Japan. We are greedy bastards over here and we have
completely lost our connection with the natural order. Fishing is more like
Golf here Jan, less like hunting for fish, as it should be.
TimW
Ever had gravlax - raw salmon marinated for 48hrs in a dill brine,
Traditional Norwegian was to eat salmon.
Yummy Yummy!
Ralph H
Hell kill em' for fun...it's only a fish!
flyfish@ism.net
Why is it that some people try and force their views on others. If
someone dont like to look at certain images, then dont look at them and
let others enjoy it. As for me, I release all my fish, but if one wants
to keep their catch, then all the power to them. And dont worry, you will
still be respected by most flysfishers.
Very nice picture indeed.
Michel Lajoie
Killing a fish is not wrong if there is sufficient stock and the fish is
eaten. Let us not forget fishing is for - pulling out fish purely for our
entertainment is perhaps more morally suspect than killing a prey - in a
fair manner - to eat.
kkbarker@aol.com (KKBarker)
First, I think your photo at is an
absolutely gorgeous presentation. I DO NOT agree that it is a barbaric
display of careless irresponsibility. I also think that if (instead of a
contemporary-looking fisherman) it showed an Inuit with matted hair and
four teeth in a ragged furry bearskin it would be accepted by most
Americans as the rustic lifestyle of an indigenous people whose heritage
must be preserved at all costs. As it very well may be in your
contemporary culture. Yes, I'm an American...in this particular case,
part of a group of frequently pompous hypocritical reactionary
persumptuous people.
I am new to flyfishing and have only been out twice with friends. Except
for a couple of fishing afternoons as a kid, I have never otherwise
hunted in my life. I admire the effort of catch and release, and am
really trying to accept the idea as standard (given the reduction in our
habitats). But I can't completely get past my first reaction to the
concept of catch & release...that it's a somewhat cruel thing. Sort of
like trudging through through the water all afternoon, taking aim with a
machete to see how many points I could rack up. I agree with TBone that
turning a day of fishing & night of dinner into an afternoon of repeated
catch & release is like turning an invigorating nature hike in the woods
into a day of repetitive golf. To me anyway, it turns a fundamentally
natural human outdoor experience into a different thing.
But truly, I am trying to accept the concept...and fully intend to
participate in catch and release in the eastern US.
If we've overrun the natural trout streams (and other fishing areas) in
this country so that it becomes harmful (and then socially unacceptable)
to bring home a fish for dinner...well, so be it. But barking at people
in other parts of the world with a different balance of resources---or
an entirely different hertitage---is pompous and deserves little regard.
Your boat photo is beautiful and inspiring, and if you feel it belongs
there (as I do), then I hope you'll leave it at that. I also wish your
website was in English so I could better appreciate it...but I'm not
going to yell at you for that either.
Jeff Cook
Hej Jan Gunnar!
Jag ar en flugfiskare bosatt i U.S.A. sedan tre ar. Jag brukar skriva en
del insandare och inlagg i denna "newsgroup". George Gehrke lagger sig
alltid i andras asikter och inlagg. Han ar tyvarr inte vanlig och jag
for min del ar inte fortjust i honom overhuvudtaget. Mitt tips till dig
ar att fullstandigt ignorera honom och helt enkelt inte bry dig.
Med vanliga halsningar
9 dead salmon one of which weighed 44 pounds. One looks like a grilse.
Say the average was 20 lbs. So 180 pounds of which they get over 100
pounds edible meat. How much is enough?
Here on the wet coast of BC the Oak Bay Marine group - the largest operator
of salmon fishing destination resorts - advertises based on the size of
the daily and bag limits: 4 salmon a day ; 2 halibut. Many of those fish
weigh 40 to 60 lbs each. Catches over 4 a day aren't rare so some can keep
4 fish weigh 30lbs each plus 2 halibut @ 50lb plus. Oh yeah then stop on the
way home an jig up a bag of rock fish. So they take home a couple hundred
lbs of fish. Personally I find it obscene.
How much is too much? I bring too many fish home my complains that the menu
gets boring.
remember the old saying (was current in the 60's)
Limit Your Kill, don't kill your limit
Ralph H
Furuly's Salmon Fishing Pages
Me, "a salmon fishin' barbar", with typical dead Norwegian salmon at 13,7 kilo's.
Copyright Furuly!
Hundreds of answers came in. On several newsgroups and mailinglists fishermen and fisherwomen discussed if it is right or wrong to kill your catch for weeks. It seems like this was a really hot topic with amazingly different opinions.
kmustad@telcel.net.ve
IF WE BELIEVE THAT WE WOULD BELIEVE THE POPE ISN'T POLISH.
gink@clarkston.com
twalker@rof.net
heidecke@direct.ca
Tom
tommc@starwave.com
twalker@rof.net
heidecke@direct.ca
http://www.titan.qc.ca/moucheux
jcook@his.com
Washington, DC area
Hans.
heidecke@direct.ca
The New Years Day 1997 Salmon Fly Swap
Jan Gunnar Furulys Cyber Lavvo - Main page
Copyright Jan Gunnar Furuly 1997 ©