Dana International: Israeli press 1994

Danna - promotion picture '94 The hit 'Sa'ida Sultana' made us and the whole world discover Dana International. Dana International - a breathtakingly gorgeous woman, who a few years ago was a nice guy named Yaron Cohen. Now she is climbing to the top of the chart with two new hits, and is not ashamed to admit that 'being sexy' is part of her pose on stage.

"What the eyes are seeing now / It's not always the truth / The old riddle has not yet been solved / And the discovery is hidden inside / So, you should always expect surprises / You're in wonderland like everyone else / And anyone can be wrong, you are only human / You're only a pawn in the crying game / What has happened is what will happen / You should listen to it before you shoot / Neither the parent nor the teacher / Like it seemed, God wanted it this way / What you saw, you wanted so much / Like you saw, you were terribly wrong"

This song was written by Ehud Manor to a new singer, Dana. Some of you remember that name. Dana is the one who sang the huge hit 'Sa'ida Sultana' last summer. The success of that song persuaded Dana to work on an album. An album that just today is being released.

What did Ehud Manor write about in that song? About Dana's private life. Today, she is a breathtakingly gorgeous woman, with sensual lips, soft skin and a body that can easily publish any small bikini fashion.

Until recently, we might have described her completely differently. Dana once was Yaron Cohen, a curly-haired guy with one big dream - being on stage. "When I was a kid," says Dana, "I had a role in the show 'Joseph and the amazing technicolour dreamcoat' with Shlomo Artzi and Tiki Dayan. I have sung in the municipal choir of Tel-Aviv, and I knew I had one big dream - to be a singer.”

- When did you start working on your album?
"I was taking part in one of Ofer Nisim's shows. It was a show of guys who were disguised as women. It's called a 'Drag-Show'. I was the star. One time as a joke I sang a parody of 'My name is not Susan' by Whitney Houston. We told the audience that this was Whitney Houston from Saudi Arabia and that Susan was changed to Sa'ida. The excitement was so big that we decided to record the song for the radio stations."

On the radio, 'Sa'ida' became a very successful hit. That brought Arthur Brown, the original composer of the song, to Israel. Brown met with Dana and Nisim, and went back to the USA with Dana's version. One month later Dana and Nisim got a fax from the USA: 'Sa'ida' is climbing to the top of the US dance chart between Madonna and Michael Jackson.

"It was such huge surprise," she says, "No Israeli artist has ever been in that chart. I see that as a national pride."
Dana and Nisim decided to work on a complete album in order for her to have an international career. "But first we decided to release my album in Israel. Although it's very impressive to succeed abroad, I think that the most important thing is to succeed in your home country."

On the cover of the album, Dana is being photographed lying on a huge bed with a sexy look in her eyes. The songs for her album were written by Dudu Barak, Yoav Ginai, Etnix, Mikiagi and Dana herself together with Ofer Nisim, who also produced the album. Dana's songs were very successful in the Israeli charts, and Dana decided to get exposed in the media.

- Tell me about the reactions of the audience.
"At the beginning, I was terribly frightened. I was frightened that for the audience would have a hard time accepting me. But I was really surprised. The audience likes the songs and sings along with me. I'm giving a very colourful show, with dancers, a big celebration on stage. Today, so many artists in Israel think that they should sing about pain and suffering. Everyone sings about everything which is bad. But the good and the bad is inside us. The question is what direction we want to look. I want to represent the better side of life. The colourful life. The bubbly life."

Dana was born and raised in Tel-Aviv. She tells us she was an excellent student and the queen of the class - "The friend of all the girls in class." Her idol was Ofra Haza. "I was really happy when she had success abroad. That was a slap in the face to everyone who thought themselves to be music experts. Ofra was regarded by them as some kind of a puppet singer, although she has an amazing voice. She is the most successful Israeli artist in the world, and back here so many despised her."

"Generally, I can not understand why there is an understanding in Israel that a singer shouldn't be sexy. You should wear only jeans and look slovenly dressed in order to be respected as a singer. Why? It's so ridiculous!!!"

- Do you want to be sexy?
"Yes. Sex and music go together. Music is not only sound and voice. It's also a show. It speaks to all the senses, not only the ears."

- Tell me about how you became a woman.
"Why? It's unnecessary. Look at me. See how I look. I hope it's not too arrogant to say that I look more beautiful than the average woman. Why do you want to deal with the subordinate details? I want you to listen to my songs and enjoy them. All the rest is meaningless."

And the ones who listen to Dana's songs are the radio listeners. Dana is very successful in the Israeli charts. And it's not so simple, speaking about an anonymous singer. Her songs 'Fata Morgana' and 'The game of tears' are at the top of the charts.

- Were you surprised?
"I was more happy than surprised. You see, I chose a very unusual life to live, a very uncompromising life. I always have to live with the good and hope. I try to be optimistic, although Ofer was the one who believed in the project from the beginning. I was very doubtful about the way the audience would accept me."

- How did you accept a phenomenon like yourself?
"With a lot of love. At a very young age, I understood that I had two possibilities: To give up life and to go with the garlands, or, to accept my truth and do what I feel. Our lives are very short, and we are always dealing with how to live life instead of actually living our lives."

- Do you have a boyfriend?
"I used to. But we decided to separate. I'm the type that devotes herself completely to love. Now, I don't have any time for that. It's too hard. Lovers? You should see how many phone numbers I bring home. I like young men with short hair, a lot of self-confidence and with no complexes."

- Do you want to get married?
"Maybe, when I get older. I'm only 22 years old. I have so many dreams. I want to travel the world, to see, to know, to feel all the good in life. Some day, I will settle and adopt a kid..."

Dana International, formerly Yaron Cohen, is the first transvestite artist in Israel. Around here that's still a little bit difficult to swallow, but America is already catching on. The song 'My name is not Sa'ida' has been in the top of the dance charts over there. Dana claims that here, we really do not have dance music, just a few not very brave attempts. She is not worry from the reactions of the audience, and sure that we will grow up. There will be a day, when a transvestite singer won't be a gimmick.

When the song 'My Name Is Not Sa'ida', the first dance version of Dana International, crossed the Israeli borders to go abroad and land on American dance floors, no one dreamt that it would get such a warm reaction. The song got thousands of American kids crazy with its special style: An ethnic sound and lots of Israeli pepper - they like it. It's even become a cult with the local youth. On the American dance floors the song got to the top, and kept its position in the top ten for 2 months. The elders of Zion can’t remember such a huge success since ‘Ofra Haza.

There were some who said that a new dance star was born in our country and only time proved them right, or at least partially. But the point is that this egging female voice, the long hair that changes from black to blond and the long red nails - all belong to a former guy, Yaron Cohen.

Yaron was born in 1972 to a father who worked in the court and a housewife mother. "Even during my childhood I felt feminine. It was not a stage which suddenly appeared in me. I never had internal conflicts concerning my sexual identity, I didn't have problems with myself and I always knew who I am and what I am."

Yaron Cohen became Dana in May 1993. "I had the sex change surgery in London, and it cost me a lot of money, which I had been saving for some time from different jobs. I didn't feel different before and after the surgery. It didn't change me a bit. I just felt more like a woman after the surgery."

Yaron had a happy and childhood full of music, something that pulled him into a music career. "I was in the 'Kameri' theatre and I was in the youth bell choir of Tel-Aviv. There was always music at home, and because of that music was a very special thing in my eyes."

Today, Yaron is known as Dana - the new hit, and International - it's the name of one of the songs in the album which somehow got attached her. She explains : "All the radio broadcasters call me Dana International and that's how the listeners got to think that’s what I'm called. But it's not like that. My name is Dana. I don't want to be called Dana International in the future, only Dana. But for now, it doesn't bother me."

- Do you think that there is a dance music here in Israel nowadays?
"In Israel there is no dance music. Period. But there is of course a place for that kind of music here. Ethnix, for example, does something which comes close to dance music, but not exactly. They do music with dance mixes and it's built on the same principle of dance music, but I think they go with it until the end. But we cannot argue with success. They have success, they sell albums and this is what's really important. The audience loves them and buys them."

- And regarding to the quality of their music?
"I'm not a music critic. Who am I to give grades to this band?"

- How do you think the audience will receive your brand of ‘until the end’ dance music as you called it?
"Today, every child knows that dance music is the best. When you are going out to dance you only hear dance music. You don't hear rock. I think that this type of music is the best music to listen and dance to. But the problem with this kind of music in our country is the language. It's very hard to make a hit from a Hebrew sentence like the Americans do in English."

- So what kind of music do you do?
"Simple dance music. Music with rhythm, pleasant for the ear and good for dancing. All music I make and sing is music done with a wink, with humor. I don't give hints or different statements in my songs. I just like that people enjoy my songs."

- How does the audience receive you in your shows?
"You should see my show, the audience is really hysterical when my name is called. I have dancers who start off my show, and only then I join them, dancing and singing. All through the show, the audience screams with excitement. We give performances of my best songs."

- Is it correct to say that dance music is easy money? You don't have to make an effort with the lyrics?
"It might be true that dance music is the easiest kind of music to earn money through, I really don't know. The thing is dance music is the ruling style of music and the audience likes it."

- How were the shows abroad?
"To tell you the truth, here, the audience is still in shock because of my personal story, and they try to find defects in me and signs of my ex-manhood. In abroad, they know this phenomenon. They saw the likes of me a long time ago. But atmosphere-wise, it's the same. It's happy both here and there."

- Abroad, did they introduce you as a transvestite singer?
"No. Here it's a gimmick which will add to my success because no-one has seen anything like me in the past, but there, it interests no-one."

- The fact that people react to your gimmick more than your music does not disturb you?
"No, not really. I have had a sex change and so have other people - in Turkey, Germany and other places. In Israel it's an unfamiliar subject and people ask questions and are interested. But in the end, the excitement and the curiosity will subside and I will remain only a singer. The music survives eventually."

- Is there a special message in your songs?
"I'm not for giving messages to people in songs. Not at all. Those who don't want me, shouldn't come to me. I think that putting messages in songs is a silly thing. You should transfer good music, not opinions in your songs. Moreover, I think that opinions in songs don't help you sell more copies."

- For example?
" Bo’az Sharabi, for example. He released a song about Ron Arad [an Israeli soldier missing in Lebanon]. He does not know him, nor is he a relative. This song is only a way for him to get to the top of the chart. I can also sing about starving children, so I will seem nicer, big deal!!!"

- Do you intend to continue with this musical style, or you are thinking to change direction sometime?
"I love what I do. I think a singer should not change his musical style. Each singer should do what his audience expects him to. To give the fans the stuff they want. Margalit Tzan'ani, for example, was a huge soul singer, until one day she decided to start singing rock and failed."

- Let's get back to your surgery for a minute. You said yourself that the audience does not know a phenomenon like you. Weren't you afraid of the reactions of the local audience?
"My surgery was the last stage in a very long process. There is no reason that people would accept Boy George with his sexual inclination, and then other artists, and not me. No-one rejected him for putting on make-up in a feminine way. We live in the 20th century and people are more open, they accept lots of stuff in a supportive way. If I had done it 30 years ago, I would have reconsidered it 30 times."

- You really weren't afraid?
"I was afraid, but the local audience has accepted me. Even in the most remote places it was great. There are very warm people in our country. Those who find it difficult to accept me are the conservatives. Generally, I think that people do not have to like a singer because of his story, but because of his songs."

- Is there a man in your life?
" Ah... There are plenty. Usually they change. I get bored with men very fast, so I change them very often. I had a man once for a year and a half but no-one succeeded in taking his place."

- Your past does not disturb your men?
"My past does not disturb my men. They are attracted to me sexually, and this kind of attraction reduces the fear. Everything depends on the openness of the man."

- Do you think about getting marry and adopting children?
"No. To go with the institutions is not my thing. I like freedom, I like to have fun and to run wild. I want children, but not right now, not until I have a good economic foundation."

- What's about your ‘Romance’ with the group Drama?
"Drama has no connection to me. ‘Ofer Nisim, my producer, was the one who established Drama. He was excited with me, and decided to invest in me first. But I'm sure Drama hasn't said its last words."

- Ethnix wrote the song 'Fata Morgana' for you, how did you get it?
"Ethnix wrote the song for Drama, and ‘Ofer Nisim was the one who decided to give it to me. For what I heard, they are not sorry that it happened."

- Any plans for the future?
"I hope to succeed abroad and in Israel. Except that, I hope my album will be a success, until now, the sales are pretty good."

There are some girls / there are some girls / Who dress like in the magazines / The skirt goes up to the sky / And the blouse is full of wholes / Who anyone can choose / But I'm not like them / I'm usually chaste / And no-one clings himself to me

Dana International, the one who sings that well-known text by Yoram Tahar-Lev in a dance style, and who has starred at the top of the charts for weeks, is now presenting the second course on the table that she presented a year ago to the Israeli audience. In her second album ‘Umpatampa’ she sweetly sings A virgin rising from the sea / A virgin rising to the sky / If you take me in your hands / Take me lightly

"Sit and rest on Shabbat", she recommends in a traditional song, and right after she sings a song of Yona Valach: 100% man / He has the feelings of a man / When he leaves, I want to leave / Together with him / When he cries, I want to cry / Together with him // When I don't behave like a woman / He doesn't like it There are also songs by Corinne Elal and Tzvika Pik.

"When I hear the announcer of the chart read the top 10 list, and I have 2 songs on it, one of them in the second place, before Gidi Gov, Mashina and Ethnix, it definitely makes me feel great," she said this week when we met. "In these minutes of success, when the teenagers give me the highest grade in the chart, I feel that it's not only a private victory for me as a singer. It's also a victory over a conservative society, over narrow-minded people, over primitive opinions. Sometimes I think to myself how wonderful the young here are, who are able to appreciate the music at face value. You know, when I was a little girl..."

- A little boy.
"Don't be so narrow-minded. In my childhood I think I would never have dared to put a transvestite at the top of the chart."

This last sentence she says with a big smile. Generally, Dana, 25, is very funny a lot of the time. She imitates singers very accurately, she laughs at rock bands, and at herself as well. When you see her on stage, with all the feathers and the decorations, and in daily life in Jeans, the first reaction is to wonder at the fact that this girl once had a Bar-Mitzvah. She actually tries to refer to her sex change as though speaking about changing her hair color. Something accepted, which is happening almost in every house. It's so strange, when you talk with her you feel real embarrassment that no one in your family never took that step.

Behind the production and most of the melodies of the new album, stands Ofer Nisim, the one who invented the brand name Dana International. He is the one who found her when she still was Yaron Cohen, and made her join a drag show that he was managing. Taking the chance paid off, and today Dana is one of the most popular singers in Israel. On her first album the critics wrote that this was the best dance album ever made in Israel - "And it was very important for me to release this new album now, in order to prove that I'm not just a singing gimmick."

- You are certainly a gimmick.
"Believe me, it was not such an easy decision to come to such a conservative country like ours and go on to tell everyone who I really am. But I knew that at the beginning, everyone will focus on my gimmick, but afterwards it will be forgotten. After all, how many times can people ask me if I liked to play with dolls as a child. And by the way, I have never played with dolls. I always preferred jump ropes."

"I provided all the most private details about myself, until a certain stage when it was enough. I didn't like this game. I told to myself, one minute, there is something which is not fair here. No one will dare to ask Rita or Yudit Ravich the questions I am asked. I have proved myself, and those who continue to be curious about my body will have to please me enough in order for me to show him everything."

Her first album sold 16,000 copies. "You know, simultaneously with me, two other new singers released their albums. Look about all the PR fuzz that was done around them, while everyone reacted to me as a curiosity. However today I have sold more than both of them put together."

Dana International is also the only singer for the last 15 years who has had songs simultaneously in the Israeli chart and the Israeli chart for foreign music. (Only Gali Atari has done it with 'Hallelujah'.) Michel Sherf, the editor of the chart, was also surprised at the fact that two of her songs were bolted fast in the year-end chart of ‘94. On last Independence day she took part, for the glory of the State of Israel, in a huge cycle of park-shows all over the country, together with the best artists in Israel like Aviv Geffen and Mashina. Tonight, she will be in Dudu Topaz show, 'Rishon La-bidur'.

Dr. Moti Regev from Jerusalem University did his doctorate thesis on the Israeli music scene.

- Do you see Dana two years from now, singing in a national ceremony on Independence day?
"No. But I can't see 'Efo ha-yeled' there either. In my opinion, dance in Hebrew will never become a big phenomenon. Still, because of the permeation of MTV into our lives, things have changed. Today, bisexuality is very modern."

And Dana is now looking abroad. She already released one hit in English there, 'Sa'ida Sultana', and it got to the top of the American dance charts. Now, she is waiting to see if the song she sent to the Kdam-Eurovision will be accepted. Regarding the question whether she thinks that she could represent Israel in the Eurovision, she answers with a smile: "I sure can do better than Sarai Tzuriel and Moti Giladi," and adds, "I hope that when they choose the songs for the Kdam, they will react only to the quality of the song, and won't mix in other factors."

Now Betzalel Aloni, the one who made ‘Ofra Haza an international success, is interested in Dana. And it's really amusing because of the fact that at the beginning of Dana's career, Dana used to imitate Haza in the drag shows she did in gay clubs.

Dana: "I met him and it was like closing a circle for me. I have liked ‘Ofra Haza even since my childhood. I admire her for the way she made it, a poor girl who fought, never gave up, and reached the top."

"By the way, Ehud Manor was the first to tell me that my singing remind him of Haza. After that, many more have told me as well. I also know that when someone asked Haza about it, she answered "Well, we are both Yemenites."

In the last year, International ploughed the whole country with her shows, and was amazed at the amount of love she received. "Once I had a show at a Bar-Mitzvah. At the beginning I didn't agree, but the parents told me that the Bar Mitzvah boy was dead keen to have me, and they were ready to pay me any price. Of course, then I agreed."

Moshe Lenzman, an educational psychologist: "The youth is always been open to things that look different, in order to protest against their parents, against a conservative society. Besides, today many are willing to forgive an artist for a lot of unaccepted things in his life, if he gives something to the society in his way. The society understands that the soul of an artist is different and sensitive."

Hanoch Plum, psychologist: "The openness to Dana is not an Israeli matter, it's part of the general change all over the world about sexuality, in a direction towards much more openness."

And regarding the openness to Dana, there is no border.

- How, for example, do you explain a story about you in the gossip columns about missing a flight to Germany, because you saw a handsome guy and disappeared with him to the toilet?
"First of all, it was worth it. He was really handsome. Usually I do not do these kind of things, I need to know someone more than ten minutes to go to bed with him, but with this specific man, there was something special. He was tall and muscular, and I felt that all the confidence of the airport was on my thin body."

"After I told this story to a lot of my friends it was obvious it would arrive to the gossip columns. These story do not bother me."

- Now, please explain who gave you the daring idea to sing your own version of 'Dror Yekra'?
"The connection to Judaism is very important, and it's too bad that the young today are not close enough to it. Shabbat songs are a wonderful thing. I sang them at home, and I can sing them and get excited from them no less than any bearded cantor."

- And are your parents proud of your success?
"Sure. Although I will always stay Yaroni for my mother. It's not a big deal. It's a blessed name. Imagine to yourself that I could have been called Shmaia???"

It was expected that eventually there would be an Israeli star who would make Euro-dance music, MTV style. But it wasn't expected that this star would be Dana. (Now she’s in the Kdam too.) And now it's the time to sit for a minute with the one who invented Dana International. Here is the most successful musical producer of the year, and the new Israeli dance king. Here is Ofer Nisim. By Gie Asif.

One of most interesting thoughts about the almost intoxicating success of Dana International, or to be more precise the two-engine project Ofer Nisim presents Dana International, is what does this mean? (In a human way, I mean) Does it mean we have an historical revolution here in the vision of the gay community, a blatant and smashing breaking of the stifling and depressing heterosexual codes, or may be it's just another simple testimony to the enormous voluptuousness of Middle Eastern men?

Our world is very arranged. There are some boys, there are some girls, and there are some beds - on the beds the boys and girls can have fun together. But sometimes, rarely, one boy is confused, and get into bed with another boy, who is disguised as a girl. Those are frightening events. Very frightening events. But there is forgiveness for the sinner: He doesn't understand what he is doing. And if he understood, he would be frightened, repulsed and run away. You see, I am not speaking - God forbid - about an extreme and repulsive situation of two people of the same sex who decide to get into the same bed consciously and have fun together. We are only speaking about a tiny hormonal mistake. It does happen. Even in the best families.

So, boys who are disguised as girls, or in their definition transvestites, do not pose a real threat to the social heterosexual codes: Transvestites are generally more women that women - better than the real ones. This matter is realized also in the transvestites' point of view: Their real romantic ambitions are directed towards heterosexual men - Yes Sir, I can boogie all night long. Gays and lesbians, on the other hand, are not reacted to as a curiosity, and in order to accept their different sexual preferences, we need more than 'just wanting to have fun'. But this is what we have in the meantime.

Dana, accordingly, is very accepted by us, the heterosexual society. And she knows it, and uses us wisely. I'm not only talking about the fact that 'Umpatampa', her and Ofer Nisim's second album, is the most sold album in Israel the last weeks, I'm not talking about her dramatic presence in the radio and television charts either ('Yeshnan Banot' is now in its third week at the top of the chart and 'Ani lo yekhola' went straight in at number five). I'm not even talking about the hysteria in Egypt. Simply, my friends, I’m talking about the anti-gray push Dana gave to the local pop consumers. We can say a lot of things about Dana. But one thing, which our pop stars excel at being, we cannot say about her: She is certainly not: boring.

Ofer Nisim - the one who invented, nurtured, and brought Dana this far - is certainly the hottest pop-producer in Israel these days. He is 30 years old, he has the voice of Tzvika Pik, a white piano, 20,000 records, and long and carefully done hair.

Ofer grew up in Tel Aviv, listened to ABBA, and completed his education in 'Ironi Alef' high school. For the last ten years he has been the house DJ, or to be more precise, the first and the last musical arbiter of gay parties in Tel Aviv. Nisim, is also, probably, the musician/DJ with the most disturbed way of thinking in the country. Not only does he prefer Donna Summer to Nirvana, he also prefers Modern Talking to Prodigy! Believe me, Ofer knows all he has to know about this game.

When I say that Ofer is the one who invented, nurtured, and brought Dana this far, I mean every word of it, and then more. Dana is actually an typical example of the latest disco-pop model, where the image is not an independent one, but a planned and well programmed brand name, created by PR people with diplomas.

- Nisim, there are people who claim that you are the real Dana.
"No!!! You have been had."

- Don't be so shy suddenly. I'm not the one who wrote 'Ofer Nisim presents Dana International' on the cover of Dana's albums.
"In the world there are a lot of DJs who function as omnipotent bosses, and do the work behind the scenes.. I’m talking about DJ Capella, Bobo and Snap. These are producers that have acquired quite a reputation, and the singers are fired on an almost daily basis. However, Dana is not a marionette. In her case, although I'm the conceptual thinker, she remains an inseparable part of the project. This project could not exist without her. That's a fact. I didn't replace her."

On his way into Dana's arms, Ofer managed to produce 'Drama Band'.
Ofer: "Me and Drama released the single 'Masks' to the radio stations, and it succeeded very well. Afterwards, we released another one. But at the same time, I released 'Sa'ida' with Dana, and I saw that Sa'ida was stealing more of the focus. I said to myself - 'just a moment, Ofer, you go with what you really believe in, on what will win in the long run'. Then I took all the stuff that I had compiled for Drama - Ethnix's song, Mikiagi's song - and invested it on Dana."

Before we turn to an accurate analysis of the brand name Dana, and to the vigorous speculations that collect behind and in front of her, I must add another biographical note, without it, Ofer Nisim's story won't be complete, or to be more precise, without it, there would be no story. "I remember," and our hero opens another chapter of 'Facts of life', "that my first evening as a DJ was in the 'Theater' club, at the age of 15."

- 15? At 15 I didn't even know how to put gel in my hair. How the hell did you get into show business at such a young age?
"I guess I rebelled. I remember myself making charts on the class blackboard at the age of 11. I brought the record player, and all of us would listen to ABBA and Baccara. Anyway, I remember myself at the first time in the 'Theatre' club, seeing the DJ above, and I told to myself that I could do a better job. And then one day when he got sick, I replaced him. It was so funny. A 15 year-old replaced a 30 year old DJ."

- How did you get the job?
"I succeeded because of the strong desire I had. When I want something, I usually get it. I'm extremely persistent. I remember I didn't give anyone a chance to replace me. If I was sick, or abroad, I was worried never to miss a party. So in all those years, I didn’t miss a party as a DJ more than twice."

-In all those years?
"Alllllllllllllll those years."

-The 'Theatre' club held gay parties on a permanent basis. It was really quite modern, wasn't it?
"Yes. I think that in all of the years that has passed since, there has been a lot of progress. Then, everything was much more naive and obvious."

- Today gay parties are much less hidden and tainted with shame, in a context of communications at least.
"I think it's a part of the general atmosphere. And Dana International and I have a very important place in this context. What I did with Dana definitely was a revolution, and I think it will enter into the history books. An absolutely straight audience in this conservative country buys the record of a woman who once was a man - in heaps. It is some kind of revolution to say 'she is on the map'. I like people who tell the truth. I don't speak about those who tell the truth with impudence. But if a question is asked, there is no need to lie."

- And you are willing to tell the truth too?
"Yes. I have no problem with that. I'm proud in what I am and I like honest people. I cannot understand these lies. Why people deny things. There is no need to deny anything."

- Do you think that there is still discrimination of gays today?
"I don't think so. I think it's fine. But I speak only for Tel Aviv. I know that in Tel Aviv everyone gets the same treatment."

- OK, let's stop with this depressive talk. Let's talk about the real thing: How did you meet Dana?
"It's started when I assembled a drag show group for gay parties - 4 guys who change identity all the time. We chose people from abroad like Shirley Bassey and Liza Minnelli and some people from Israel like Rita, Ofra Haza and Yardena Arzi. We took the songs, and added very vulgar words in Hebrew to the playback tapes, dance routines, and some colorful costumes. After we did anything, we asked 'what can we do next that would shake people up?'. Suddenly I got an idea. We decided to do Whitney Houston in Saudi Arabia. We couldn't find any song in Arabic that Houston had sung, so I decided that one of the members in the team would just have sing in Arabic. I tested everyone, and when I heard Dana I was in shock. Only after I was told that Dana has a musical background, and when I discovered her great voice, we immediately improvised very very funny, words that became the sentences that shocked Egypt: 'Ana harmana wa-almanan'. I'm sure we did a lot of mistakes in Arabic, but from the beginning it was only humor, parody. It was not a matter for the Arabic Academy. And then, Dana did a show with the song in Eilat. In the beginning she sang 'My name is not Susan', but in the second chorus she started to sing in Arabic. Suddenly I understood that the audience was ecstatic, and I understood that this tune had a very serious commercial potential. IMP Dance got the picture pretty soon, and put the song in the collection 'Super Mix 13', and that was the track that sold this collection. Afterwards we recorded 'Shushu Ya Shushu', and it sold well too, and the company turned to me and offered me to work on a whole album with Dana."

- How was the work with Dana on the album?
"You see, Dana has a certain madness. When she gets to the studio, for example, she has all these sudden impulses. Natural impulses where she improvises in seconds - they really destroy my health. All the 'Alahela kahela kahewa' (Fata morgana). It drives me crazy. I remember one time we were in the studio, and I told her that we have to justify the ‘international’, and to make a tribute to the French who didn't get any song on our previous album. Then, she told me: 'Ofer, you know what, I have an idea. May be ‘Vis-à-vis blanche’'. Now ‘Vis-à-vis blanche’ is blond vulva in French. I told her 'Dana, it's a little bit strong, isn't it? Then she told me 'No. It's going to be huge. ‘Le travail / Vis-à-vis blanche’. I'm going to work with my blond vulva."

- I think my French teacher would be furious.
"I'm sure we make a thousand mistakes, but everything is done withhumor. The songs we do together are for dance floors. Those came to us much easier than the others. People think that we sat and discussed for hours in order to get to these ideas, but the truth is that we arrived to them in seconds."

- What kind of a person is Dana really?
"I'm an optimist, very optimistic, and she is really pessimistic, you can't imagine. She sees only the bad, and she doesn't believe in anything. She did not believe for a second in that project, and I saw success from the first sound, and moreover, I see us becoming a success abroad too. May be that is why we complement each other. She says to me 'until I can see it, it doesn’t interest me. He told you that, and the other one told you this - until I can see it, everything is pure vanity. I need to see the reception'. But sometimes the reception does not help either."

-What do you mean?
"We were sent a fax that showed Sa'ida was at the number five in the American dance chart. 'Deeper and Deeper' of Madonna was in seventh place. Although she saw it in front of her eyes, she wasn't convinced. 'No! It's the dance chart. What’s dance? It's not sales!'. But I can tell you with my optimism, that Dana will get far. Dana has a great potential in this matter, more than all the artists in Israel. Dana can be accepted in the world like a special phenomenon, and I say that objectively. I'm sure not going to tell you that a singing transvestite, or a singing guy who became a girl, is a any kind of discovery the world. But I can tell you this: Dana has a voice of a woman."

- What's the connection?
"You see, all the singers who were once men, if it's a disguised man like RuPaul, or men who had sex change surgery like Amanda Lear, have something in common: A low voice. But Dana has the voice of a woman. She has a woman's octaves, and this cannot be fixed with an operation. She was born with it. Moreover, she has a look that I don't think reveals any traice that once she was a guy. And this is in our favor as well. Above everything, we have the music that we offer. We certainly won't try to sing over there the kind of thing everyone knows, but strange things, to connect what is here and what is there."

- Take a moment's rest. I have much less international question. How is Tzvika?
"Great. I have to tell you that I was raised on his music. Pik is one of the most talent producers and songwriters in Israel. I remember I used to run to buy his records. I think he was the one that brought the synthesizer to Israel. Oh... I liked his brilliant ideas so much. It's no wonder that when we met, and I asked for a song, there was a big understanding between us. He told me: 'Ofer, when I give a song, if it's not a hit, I'm not giving it."

-Tzvika Pik's paradoxes make me die.
"He told me:'Do you remember I wrote 'Leaving with him' for Riki Gal, 'The Freha song' for Ofra Haza. I give a song only if I know it's going to be a huge hit. Only when I truly believe in the production and the singer who is behind it. In your case, I give you 'I can't do without you' [Ani lo yekhola be-l’adekha] after 10 years where I haven't given a song to anyone'. We got hysterical reactions to thay song from the first moment."

- Do you know Pik’s arrogant attitude?
"Yes, I know what you mean. People say that he is pathetic. But it's not true. Because you have the people who say that on one hand, and on the other hand suddenly there is all the hypocrisy to go back to Tzvika Pik because it reminds everyone of something. It'really angers me. I think that his music was good the whole time and all those who love him in their hearts and laugh at him out loud, are hyenas. I hate it when people put a tag on someone. Because of that, me and Dana never discuss the places Dana should be in. Dana does shows for all kinds of audiences. It's a very important point: Dana has no tag. No one can say he’s afraid to listen to Dana because of the reactions. Young people can love her, and at the same time, old women can."

- Old women???
"Yes. We see it in Dana's shows. We hear it on the streets. It's very fun for us to see a 30 year old guy who hears her song, and even in small places, where you don't expect it. I know it’s the case in in places in Tel Aviv, but we also hear it in Ramle, Lod and Dimona. It's fun. Our luck is that Dana can do a show for a union, a women’s evening, and in clubs as well. And it's really happening. Nowadays, she does more than 25 shows a month."

- It's a little deviating, that piece about Dana and the union, isn't it?
"Why?"

- Ahmmm...
"Well. You can say that. But I can tell you one thing: When I did this album, I could have done it dance music only, from A to Z, with explosions in the head, with trance and whatever you want to call it. But when you make an album, you should appeal to a wider audience. You should make a combination, a package deal: To make a complete result, and besides it should be commercial. For example, when I did 'Yeshnan banot', I could have done it in the craziest, maddest and the most trance I could. I would have had no problem doing that. But we wanted to get into more ears and because of this specific production, we succeeded. I gave the last scream to song like 'Qu'est-ce que c'est' and 'Zomba', that are now in the foreign charts. And the truth is, that seeing Dana nominated for Singer of the Year in the annual foreign music chart between Madonna and Mariah Carey, is certainly very nice. No one can say I don't know how to navigate."

Dana International is designating her 10 cultural icons.

1) Cindy Lauper
One of the first foreign albums I remember listening a lot to. "She is so unusual". She was always better than Madonna in my eyes. Her songs are of a much higher quality. She did the crazy stuff before Madonna. She has a great voice. But after that album, she disappeared. Some time ago, I heard her new mix of 'Girl just wanna have fun', and I didn't like it. It was not it. An artist should always know to retire in time when he has no more to offer.

2) Corinne Elal
Generally, Israeli music does not speak to me. Corinne Elal is different in this aspect, and I have no explanation why. Almost everything she does touches my heart. Her album 'Zan Nadir' is almost the only Israeli album I have ever bought.

3) The first time behind the microphone
That was three years ago, in Ofer Nisim's house. Actually my first time on stage was at the age of 14, in the show 'Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat' with Shlomo Artzi and Tiki Dayan. I was also in the Tel Aviv choir, but recording was a new experience for me. Ofer Nisim tested standings for a drag show he was going to promote. That was the first time I sang Sa'ida Sultana. I remember the huge fun of the interaction with the microphone. Then we recorded the song, and it was released for the radios. The rest is history.

4) Shirocco club
My permanent entertainment center in ‘85. Tcupi was the DJ. The atmosphere was very gloomy and dark. It was a place that people came in order to be immersed in the atmosphere and to see bunch of guys dresses in a black leather. There, I heard a lot of high energy for the first time. A style that I like to this day.

5) Dan cinema
The other side of 'Shirocco'. In Dan cinema there was a much more close atmosphere. There they played a big variety of music. People smiled. There, I could dance a whole night continuously, because I liked all the songs.

6) Divine
Another image that I was really connected to. From the musical view, he was made part of the high energy wave, and he added a drag show aspect to the songs. He didn't have a great voice, but I liked his impudence, the courage to take his ideas to the end. I saw him in a show in Israel, but I was disappointed. He only mimed to the music.

7) Dance
Since as far back as I can remember, I have felt a connection to dance music. I mean the pure dance that you can dance to for fun. In my club period, I heard a lot of dance which influenced me. Hazel Dean, for example, was great. Also the first songs of Bronski Beat. The connection to that music was deep - especially because of the other stuff that was played in clubs during that period, like rock, which really bored me.

8) Rita Hayworth in ‘Gilda’
Rita Hayworth, in fact, influenced me much more than the movie itself. In that actress you found everything you can demand in a woman: Beauty, sex, power, talent. She could act, dance, sing. I remember that scene with the glove. I wanted so much to be in her place.

9) My first dress
It was when I was 11 years old. A Gotches dress in azure color, which belonged to my sister. I tried it on in the bath, and then she arrived home and I started to run all over the house trying to hide. Eventually, she caught me, but didn't say a word. She only took the dress back.

10) First love
There is nothing to do about it, the first love is one of the things that changes your personality for life. My real first love came at a pretty late age, three years ago. I was 21, and it lasted two years. Until then, I always laughed at my friends who fell in love. After it had happened to me, I started to think differently. When it was over, it left me with a scar in my heart. After that, I promised myself that I would never fall in love again. Now, I have been living with someone for half a year. The truth is that sometimes you cannot understand how much you love someone until you break off with him for a certain period, and only then you feel how much you love this person.